Curse

ZING · Jul 20, 2005, 06:49 AM // 06:49

Been playing for a bit with the build, and here's the best break down I've seen so far.
This is very detailed so have fun reading it...

(2) W/Mo -- Healers
Attribute Points:
Healing Prayers (10)
Strength (11 +1)
Axe Mastery (10 + 1)
Major Vigor Rune
Equipment:
Gladiator Armor
+ 8 Energy
PvP Healing Ankh
Energy +12
Energy +15
Energy Regeneration -1
Health +30
PvP Axe with Fortitude Grip
Skills:
Martyr {E}
Restore Life
Heal Other
Doylak Signet
Endure Pain
Penetrating Blow
Disrupting Chop
Axe Rake

(2) W/Mo -- Protectors
Attribute Points:
Protection Prayers (10)
Strength (11 +1)
Swordsmanship (10 + 1)
Major Vigor Rune
Equipment:
Gladiator Armor
+ 8 Energy
PvP Healing Ankh
Energy +12
Energy +15
Energy Regeneration -1
Health +30
PvP Sword with Fortitude Grip
Skills:
Restore Condition {E}
Convert Hexes
Remove Hex
Doylak Signet
Endure Pain
Sever Artery
Galrath Slash
Final Thrust

W/N
Attribute Points:
Curses (10)
Strength (11 +1)
Swordsmanship (10 + 1)
Major Vigor Rune
Equipment:
Gladiator Armor
+ 8 Energy
PvP Grim Cesta
Energy +12
Curses +1
Health +30
PvP Sword with Fortitude Grip
Skills:
Plague Signet {E}
Weaken Armor
Rigor Mortis
Sprint
Sever Artery
Gash
Galrath Slash
Final Thrust

W/M
Attribute Points:
Inspiration (9)
Strength (10 + 1)
Swordsmanship (10 + 1)
Tactics (7 + 1)
Major Vigor Rune
Equipment:
Gladiator Armor
+ 8 Energy
PvP Jeweled Chalice
Energy +12
Inspiration Magic +1
Health +30
PvP Sword with Fortitude Grip
Skills:
Flurry
Ether Lord
Ether Feast
“Fear Me!”
Sever Artery
Gash
Galrath Slash
Final Thrust

(2) W/R
Attribute Points:
Strength (11 + 1)
Swordsmanship (11 + 1)
Wilderness Survial (8)
Major Vigor Rune
Equipment:
Gladiator Armor
+ 8 Energy
PvP Sword with Fortitude Grip
Skills
Battle Rage {E}
Sprint
Warrior’s Cunning
Frozen Soil
Sever Artery
Gash
Galrath Slash
Final Thrust

How the Build is played:
The two Healing Warriors have 55 energy (more then enough for their jobs), and between them can use Martyr every 5 seconds. They also heal in-between using Martyr. The attacks given to them are all Adrenaline based, since you don't want to mistakenly waste Energy. Doylak is there to keep anyone from using knockdown interrupts (W.E), and Endure Pain keeps them alive in-case anyone gets wise as to who's healing.

The two protection monks also have 55 energy, and remove all conditions received by the martyr monk, and remove all hexes with Convert Hexes and Remove Hex. Doylak is there to keep anyone from using knockdown interrupts (W.E), and Endure Pain keeps them alive in-case anyone gets wise as to who's protecting.

The Warrior Necro always leads the charge into battle. He accepts as many conditions as possible, and then passes them onto a called target that 4 Warriors descend on to kill (2 W.R, W.N, W.M). This character also Weakens Armor before everyone else arrives.

The Warrior Mesmer is a nice little Energy drainer. Flurry essentially let's him spam "Fear Me!". He's also got Ether Lord and Ether Feast. While attacking in unison with 3 other Warrior's this character can drain energy from virtually anyone at an alarming rate.

The Warrior/Rangers are set up for as much damage as possible in a short time, and also contribute to making sure when someone dies they STAY dead.

The build is stupid hard to get together given how many different aspects have to come together, but it’s a thing of beauty when it functions properly. You want to talk about spike dmg; there’s isn’t a character class around that can withstand 4 un-conditioned Warriors (who aren’t going to miss with their attacks for 10 seconds) whacking away at an enemy who’s armor is weakened.

The first kill is the hardest, but each subsequent kill gets easier and easier thanks to the W.M spamming “Fear Me!”. Helpful casters have less and less ability to save anyone in trouble, and Frozen Soil keeps anyone whose dead permanently down.

theclam · Jul 20, 2005, 07:05 AM // 07:05

A Protection Monk could easily survive 4 Warriors. Throw on Protective Spirit and use Mend Ailment and Reversal of Fortune as necessary. Frankly, the only way that I can see making this work would be to have the W/N use Blood is Power. Otherwise, the W/Mos would run out of mana way too fast.

Meimei · Jul 20, 2005, 07:26 AM // 07:26

Where is your Res and Hamstring?

Moltov joss · Jul 20, 2005, 07:42 AM // 07:42

Hmmmm. I see no hex removal, if I remember corectly warriors dont like hexes.

Black Raine · Jul 20, 2005, 07:42 AM // 07:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by theclam

A Protection Monk could easily survive 4 Warriors. Throw on Protective Spirit and use Mend Ailment and Reversal of Fortune as necessary. Frankly, the only way that I can see making this work would be to have the W/N use Blood is Power. Otherwise, the W/Mos would run out of mana way too fast.

This is not true. A protection monk can tank one or two with those 3 skills, but not 4.

And Battle Rage + "Fear me!" doesn't work because "Fear me!" isn't an attack skill. >_<

The War/Me build seems to rely on *too* many adrenal skills. To utilize "Fear me!" to it's full potential I think dropping Final Thrust would be best. I think it would be best to drop Battle Rage, Ether Lord, and Ether Feast and get "For great justice!" and "Charge!" and Drain Enchantment. The energy drain won't be as heavy but with Battle Rage, you would have to sacrifice some adrenaline to use those two, not to mention having to stop chasing for a few seconds to cast. With Drain Enchantment there won't be annoying Aegis or anything bugging you. Well... to an extent.

theclam · Jul 20, 2005, 08:07 AM // 08:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Black Raine

This is not true. A protection monk can tank one or two with those 3 skills, but not 4.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but most of the damage comes from Conditions and physical attacks. There are few, if any interrupts, Hexes, energy stealing, or knockdowns. Guardian, Reversal of Fortune, Protective Spirit, Mend Ailment, and/or Shielding Hands will shut down most of the damage. Depending on a secondary, something like Ward Against Melee would really impede the Warriors. If all else fails, you've got a second Monk that's virtually unharassed.

Black Raine · Jul 20, 2005, 08:33 AM // 08:33

I'm not counting a second monk, because your original post never stated that. You made it sound like every warrior will be doing almost no damage at all which is definately not true. Those *3 skills* aren't enough to survive 4 warriors. I'm sure you know that too. The monk could survive using things like Mark of Protection, but then that holds true against any other class, including elementalists, besides ones using health degen.

It's all situational really.

Zeru · Jul 20, 2005, 08:47 AM // 08:47

Ignoring the obvious fact that you have 8 of one class...

With this build, there's no reason not to have an order spammer and frankly you're up your damage potential so much if you could keep SoH/JI on all the attacking warriors.

Btw the fear me setup isn't going to work well. You need echo, not battle rage (try it without echo, you can't spam fear me well at all), and flurry as a minimum.

Though honestly this is going to be mauled so badly vs kiting and a build with ample snares. I could see a revised setup (4 warriors can do more dps than the way you have them setup) doing moderately well if every warrior ran fear me and had some way of snaring/speed boost.

ZING · Jul 20, 2005, 04:23 PM // 16:23

Answering a couple of valid points brought up:

1. The group is not a DPS group. It's a spike dmg grp. That’s why you can have a secondary Healer/Protector. Over time their Energy needs dwindle thanks to opposing party death’s.
2. Introduce any primary caster into the mix and you negate the idea of the whole build -- which is to have no easily discernable priority target.
3. There is a priority list of targets for this build. Hex casters go first (because of high energy cost for Protection Warriors to keep team free and clear).
4. You don’t need a ‘snare’ with 4 Warriors attacking one target. Collision detection keeps the attacked foe stuck in place.
5. My mistake on the Battle Rage + Fear Me. Retard moment -- Meant to say Flurry (could also use Frenzy if you believed the W/Me wasn’t going to take dmg)

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theclam:
Blood is Power is a definite possibility, but who leads the charge in? Someone’s going to get spiked hard. That is inevitable. Plague/Weaken Armor at least gets the ball rolling on your first spiked target (which should be a hex caster).

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And as always, it’s very much a work in progress at all times with the build. But it DOES work reasonably well – trust me on that. Surprise factor alone makes it difficult to decide how to handle the group; and considering you’re a spike group that’s exactly what you want.

KuTeBaka · Jul 20, 2005, 06:44 PM // 18:44

fortitude grip?!? use a defence, they work much better.

Meimei · Jul 20, 2005, 07:25 PM // 19:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZING

Answering a couple of valid points brought up:

4. You don’t need a ‘snare’ with 4 Warriors attacking one target. Collision detection keeps the attacked foe stuck in place.

U got ur point, but where is ur res?

ZING · Jul 20, 2005, 07:31 PM // 19:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Meimei

U got ur point, but where is ur res?

Restore Life (which both Healing Warriors carry) is actually a rez spell.

Meimei · Jul 20, 2005, 07:34 PM // 19:34

So your none healing warriors dont need res?

ZING · Jul 20, 2005, 07:42 PM // 19:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Meimei

So your none healing warriors dont need res?

The Healing Warriors can rez anyone that dies. IF both Healing Warriors die yur group might as well be dead too, so there's no need for anyone else to carry a rez spell.

UberRusty · Jul 20, 2005, 08:46 PM // 20:46

W/N should cast Rigor Mortis instead of all Warriors using Warrior's Cunning. And another weakness (every build has one) is against spike groups, your W/Mos just don't have enough power to heal spikes.

And spike groups are common nowdays. Even crappy spike groups could destroy your team.

stumpy · Jul 20, 2005, 08:58 PM // 20:58

also to the poster who said the protective spirit / mend ailment / reversal ... your wasting a slot on protective spirit as 10% of 450 is 45 and each would be hitting you for about that anyways ... imo better to save that 10 energy for something else.

There is potential like all builds but it just takes someone to say 'hey, I'll throw my ballz on your chopping block to test your build'

also 1 other note is you have a potential 8-12 heals in a real battle with this build before your healers notice energy problems.

and when you do manage to get in a king of the hill situation ... you wont be able to manage it. Our guild has been working on a 8 paladin (as lame as it sounds) build 4 healers 4 protectors with straight punch ya in the nose combat for on the way up to the hoh (i know many counters thats why it has taken sooo long to play with) ... then when there a few heal areas ... protection spams on the hill.

theclam · Jul 20, 2005, 09:17 PM // 21:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by stumpy

also to the poster who said the protective spirit / mend ailment / reversal ... your wasting a slot on protective spirit as 10% of 450 is 45 and each would be hitting you for about that anyways ... imo better to save that 10 energy for something else.

It protects you against Final Thrust, which is a major threat.

Tigris Of Gaul · Jul 20, 2005, 10:02 PM // 22:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by UberRusty

W/N should cast Rigor Mortis instead of all Warriors using Warrior's Cunning.

Yep, Rigor Mortis covered up is so much better then Warrior's Cunning. I think the cooldown on Cunning is like 60 seconds? That's not fun.

Black Raine · Jul 20, 2005, 10:13 PM // 22:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZING

The Healing Warriors can rez anyone that dies. IF both Healing Warriors die yur group might as well be dead too, so there's no need for anyone else to carry a rez spell.

So let's say the two healers die, wouldn't it be better if everyone else had a rez signet so you can keep trying even after they die? Just rez your healers and your back in the game again. (just with more DP)

UberRusty · Jul 20, 2005, 10:21 PM // 22:21

Quote:

Yep, Rigor Mortis covered up is so much better then Warrior's Cunning. I think the cooldown on Cunning is like 60 seconds? That's not fun.

I have an even better addition to my input! Put in Rez Signet instead of Warrior's Cunning! =D